On Success, the Publishing Business and the Fire Within: a Conversation with author Joe Clifford
Joe Clifford is one of these authors I've followed for his entire career. I remember liking his first two books Choice Cuts and Wake The Undertaker, but it's not until the first Jay Porter novel Lamentation in 2014 that I started championing his work.
I did steadily for several years and through several books. The man is a talent. But he dropped from the face of the Earth a couple years ago, only to reemerge in the Facebook comments of my conversation with Full of Hell's Sam DiGristine to suggest we should have one of these and catch up on lost time.
So that's what we did. Even if it was not an easy discussion. Joe's career (and life to a certain extent) has been full of heartbreaks, but I thought we had an important, sobering discussion about the nature of the writing business. Step behind the curtain and see for yourself what it was like for a very talented dude who never quite had that one big break, but keeps writing with more enthusiasm than ever anyway.
You kind of disappeared from my radar after publishing the final Jay Porter novel Rag & Bone in 2019. What happened to you in the meantime?
Well, I got off social media for a while. See, I bet on myself to make a living as a writer. I gave myself ten years, but that deadline came and went and that didn’t really happen for me.
I had a deal with my wife that if writing didn’t work out, I’d get a job and do the whole 9 to 5 thing. I taught writing online for a while. But I can’t be something I’m not. I didn’t write a word for about three months and found myself writing a full novel in a matter of weeks. I got on that bike again. But I did disappear and struggle for some time.
The Jay Porter books explored themes that were very close to your heart. Addiction, loss, you’ve been very public about it. Is it necessary for you to have this creative intimacy in order to create?
A smart and perceptive writer once said in a review of my work: “Joe Clifford writes about grief”. This is it. This is what I do. I'm a crime writer, but I don’t find the act of committing a crime interesting in itself. I want to write about what happened three or four days before the crime and what happened three or four days after.
John Cougar Mellencamp wrote something that really stuck with me :“Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone”. I identify with that. That’s what I write often about. Jay Porter lives, but he doesn’t want to be living anymore. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not in a crisis or anything. But it’s a feeling that pervades many of the books and the characters I wrote.
Do you feel Jay’s shadow on your more recent creations?
Nah, I don’t feel that he does. The books sure didn’t cast a shadow on anything. Junkie Love is the book I can’t escape. No matter what I write, it’s always everybody’s favorite. It’s like Bruce Springsteen and Born to Run, you know? He released so much music since then, but it’s the one people always come to hear.
Junkie Love was a very simple story that people could identify with. It had a nice ending. It’s based on my own life story. People will forgive you for being a fuck up once.
You’ve been around, steadily publishing since 2012. From my experience, you’re more steady and productive than most. Are you satisfied with your career? Would you call it a success?
No. Wouldn’t call it a success. But it’s not a fiasco either.
Man, I had the six figures advance dangled in front of me so many times. One day in 2019, I was golfing with an author signed with a major publisher and by the 17th hole, I was on the phone with Minotaur Books and pitching my novel Say My Name. It’s one of these occurrences where it almost worked out, but it was deemed too similar to The Silent Patient. There’s been a lot of frustrations like that along the way. If it should’ve happened to me, it would’ve happened by now.
Sometimes I find that I have a pretty amazing life. Drugs should’ve killed me in the nineties. I should’ve also died in a motorcycle accident many years ago. Going from where I was to where I am today, it’s amazing. But I’ve never been a happy person. When I was homeless and a junkie, I used anger to get clean. I didn’t go to AA or anything like that. I could’ve saved myself eighteen trips to rehab and numerous arrests, but I did it.
The major takeaway from Junkie Love is that life is not fair and I’m still struggling with that, like many people are. No one’s gonna discover a 53 years old writer who published many books already. That ship has sailed.
Then what keeps you going after all these years?
I like to believe that if you’re good enough and you don’t quit, you’ll eventually get to where you want to be. That it will all be worth it in the end. Everything will be forgiven. I feel like I’m still improving as a writer. My latest novel A Moth to Flame is my best from a technical standpoint. I had a lot of help from editors and people in the industry to help me make it more marketable. I’m still learning. I’m still a student of the game.
What’s the most difficult thing about being a working writer?
There’s no straight line. You don’t hand out your book, get a paycheck and start working on another right away. It would be great if it would be that way, but it isn’t. I know people in the business and whatnot, but I haven’t written "the" book yet. My Gone Girl or my Da Vinci Code. It’s easy to blame the industry, but I believe it still falls to me to get the people what they want.
Maybe I’m brainwashed by the American Dream, I don’t know. I haven’t been treated unfairly, but it’s a competitive business and less and less people read novels. People who read one or two books a year will read whatever they find at the bookstore or at the airport. They’re not necessarily looking for what you have to give.
There’s still a strong romance associated with the writer. What’s the most misunderstood aspect of the job?
Ah man. The money. Most writers make less than 5000$ a year. Very few make a living from their novels. Not everyone’s adapted into film and not everyone adapted into film is adapted into a film people are gonna remember.
It’s not 1847 anymore. If I had been a working writer then, I would probably make a living because people had not much to do to entertain themselves. But it’s not like this anymore. We live in a disposable culture. We have access to an endless stream of entertainment.
Chuck Palahniuk once said in an interview that younger readers are increasingly moving towards television and video games. Is this something you’re considering?
I would if I could. The things I do well in my writing don’t really translate into script. Syntax, cadence, musicality of language. It’s something I spend a lot of time on and take a lot of pride in. A screenplay is action, action, action. It’s not my game. There are other writers who do it much better than me, like Jordan Harper for example. His latest book Everybody Knows moves so swiftly. His writing is cinematic. Not mine.
Of course, I’m also old and I don't like change. But that’s another debate (laughs).
What are you most proud of, creatively speaking?
I released a record this year that I really like. It’s the record I really wanted to make and it’s so satisfying that it worked out the way it did, you know?
Otherwise, I’m just happy to be writing more than ever. Better than ever too. My game is still improving and I’m excited about that.
Is there another direction you’d like to take with your creative expression?
I’ve been writing weirder stuff lately, almost science fiction-like. Kind of like Twilight Zone meets Black Mirror. That kind of stuff. It’s where I’m going.
